U.S. Plan for High-Risk Raids into Pakistan Is More Than Psywar

By Gareth Porter   

This week’s leak to the New York Times of a proposal for U.S. Special Operations Forces (SOF) raids against Afghan insurgent sanctuaries in Pakistan may be intended to put more pressure on the Pakistani military to take action against those sanctuaries.

But the proposal for such cross-border raids also reflects a real demand from the U.S.-NATO command in Afghanistan to target insurgent leaders inside Pakistan if the Pakistani military does not respond to the threat, according to a U.S. source familiar with discussions at the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) headquarters in Kabul.

And the position of the Barack Obama administration on the necessity of attacking insurgent safe havens in Pakistan appears to be in line with the proposal for cross-border raids.

Carrying out such raids would probably provoke a new level of anti-U.S. sentiment in Pakistan, with dangerous political consequences in that country, according to experts on Pakistan, but the behaviour of the national security organs of the United States in the recent past suggests that such dangers are being rationalised.

The New York Times reported Monday that “senior American military commanders” – meaning Gen. David Petraeus and his subordinates at ISAF – are pushing for raids into Pakistan aimed at capturing Taliban commanders and taking them back to Afghanistan for interrogation.

Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, the primary spokesman for ISAF, issued a statement saying, “There is absolutely no truth to reporting in The New York Times that U.S. forces are planning to conduct ground operations into Pakistan.”

That did not amount to a real denial of the Times story, however. The story did not say that U.S. forces were “planning to conduct” such raids. In fact, it made clear that Obama had not yet made any decision on the proposal.

Shuja Nawaz, director of the Atlantic Council’s South Asia Center and a leading authority on the Pakistani military, sees the leak of the proposal for more cross-border raids as a form of “psychological warfare” aimed at getting the Pakistani military leadership to take action against the Haqqani network sanctuaries in Northern Waziristan.

Nawaz told IPS, however, that the timing for such an impact is off, because the Pakistani military could not launch any new offensive there until next February in any case, because of the weather. Furthermore, it still lacks the helicopters necessary for such operations, he said.

The proposed U.S. cross-border operations are “a perfect recipe for ruining even this bad relationship”, said Nawaz. They would “disrupt the whole enterprise in Pakistan, including the civilian government”. Political opponents of the existing government would be “screaming for blood”, he added, and the military would feel that it had to act against the government.

The U.S. National Intelligence Council warned the George W. Bush White House in August 2008 that SOF raids across the border in Pakistan would threaten the unity of the Pakistani military. A disproportionate percentage of army officers serving in the largely Pashtun tribal areas are Pashtun, the Council observed, and if U.S. commando raids continued beyond a few months, it could provoke large-scale defections from the Pakistani army to the militants.

The intelligence warning came only after Bush had approved a request from the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) for more latitude in carrying out raids against al Qaeda and Afghan insurgent targets in Pakistan’s tribal area.

The first raid in early September 2008 killed six children, two women and at least 10 innocent villagers who came out of their houses to see what was happening. When the Pakistani government and military responded angrily and threatened to disrupt cooperation with Washington, the raids were terminated.

The policy being pursued by the Obama administration, however, tends to insulate it from such warnings of potentially disastrous consequences of an aggressive U.S. military role in Pakistan. The administration increased the number of CIA drone strikes in northwest Pakistan over that of the Bush administration – a policy requiring that it discount the political fallout of the drone campaign in Pakistan.

The CIA has also set up “fusion centres” with the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI, aimed at making the Pakistani military more dependent on U.S. intelligence and less likely to be responsive to public opposition to U.S. military activities in Pakistan.

The idea of sending SOF units into Pakistan to try to capture insurgent leaders was first discussed last spring, when Gen. Stanley McChrystal was still top commander of U.S.-NATO forces in Afghanistan, according to a U.S. source familiar with the discussions about the issue in Kabul.

A number of Delta Force troops in Pakistan were already operating covertly in the northwest tribal region, according to the source, and the CIA’s secret Afghan militia units, the Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams, were also being sent into Pakistan’s tribal area to target Taliban and Haqqani network insurgents.

But McChrystal and Petraeus “believed they needed a much bigger footprint on the ground to do it,” the source told IPS.

The Petraeus proposal had apparently been submitted to the administration some time ago. But the story quoted a “senior American officer” as saying, “We’ve never been as close as we are now to getting the go-ahead to go across.”

The leak to the Times followed the circulation within the administration of two National Intelligence Estimates on Afghanistan and Pakistan. The NIE on Afghanistan reportedly included the first formal judgment that the United States is unlikely to succeed in Afghanistan unless Pakistan changes its policy radically and moves decisively against insurgent sanctuaries in Pakistan.

The estimate on Pakistan concluded that the Pakistani government is unlikely to change its policy toward the Taliban and the Haqqani network, as reported by the Washington Post Dec. 16.

The five-page “Summary of Findings” on the December review of the Afghan war strategy issued by the administration last week referred to “gains” as “fragile and reversible” and pointedly stated, “Consolidation of those gains will require that we make more progress with Pakistan to eliminate sanctuaries for violent extremist networks.”

The continued existence of sanctuaries in Pakistan and the failure of the Pakistani military to cooperate fully with U.S. strategy could have been cited by the administration as reason for speeding up the process of withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan rather than supporting a new military adventure in Pakistan.

But the Obama administration has painted itself into a corner by refusing to acknowledge publicly that the Petraeus war strategy is not working, despite obvious scepticism about it in the White House. A Dec. 16 story in the Washington Post reported that senior officials had already decided to base the administration’s arguments for a “significant drawdown” of troops to begin in July 2011 not on the obvious failure of the Gen. Petraeus’s strategy but on his claims that the strategy is succeeding.

They consider that course “less politically dangerous” than arguing that the Petraeus strategy hadn’t worked, according to the Post story. “It’s always better to call it success as opposed to failure,” a senior official was quoted as saying.

Also favouring the proposal for cross-border raids is the fact that those in the administration who sought to limit the number of troops and the duration of their stay in Afghanistan – including Vice-President Joe Biden – have relied heavily on SOF units to target Taliban insurgents both in Afghanistan and across the border in Pakistan, as Bob Woodward documents in “Obama’s War”.

The alternative to the McChrystal counterinsurgency strategy supported by Biden and others last year envisioned possible SOF raids on sanctuaries in Pakistan, according to a report in The Times of London Tuesday.

(Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist specialising in U.S. national security policy. The paperback edition of his latest book, “Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam”, was published in 2006).

NOTE:This is a cross post

 


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Comments

  • Inam Khan  On December 23, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    This is a black medicine for disaster.

  • Muhammad Dilshad  On December 23, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    It will be very dangerous if US troops raids across the border . Already Pakistani People are angry with this Pakistani Government due to America’s a lot of interference in Pakistan . And Pakistani will force Pakistan army to resspond US Army in Pakistan and this could lead to war between Pakistan and America. US and NATO should stay out of Pakistan.

  • Alveraz  On December 23, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    It sounds like another Cambodia. There really is no good solution, that us why it was such a bad idea to have enemies in the first place.

    • Archie Haase  On December 24, 2010 at 6:06 pm

      Jose we never earned anything. I find it weirdly strange when young writers today attack this quagmire as if this is a new predicament for the US. The disasters of the Vietnam war were never learned in school. Amazing!!!

  • Portugheis Alberto  On December 24, 2010 at 4:43 am

    It is exactly as I always tell you. Read this: (from the article) and my comments in capitals.

    And the position of the Barack Obama administration…..THEY HAVE “NO” POSITION; THEY, LIKE OTHER GOVERNMENTS, FOLLOW MILITARY INSTRUCTIONS (ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE TO PRETEND THE OPPOSITE). NOT ONLY OF HEADS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND MINISTER OF DEFENSE, BUT ALSO FROM “WAR” (DEATH) SCIENTISTS, WEAPON INDUSTRIALISTS, WEAPON DEALERS, BANKS, ETC, IN SHIRT, THOSE WHO PUT THEM IN POWER.

    …… on the necessity of attacking insurgent safe havens in Pakistan…… THE NECESSITY IS OF ATTACKING, NOTHING ELSE. THE “AIM” OR “TARGET” IS SECONDARY. HAVING PAID ARMED fORCES COSTS A FORTUNE, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY PLUS YEARS OF TRAINING, TO KEEP THE SOLDIERS, MARINES, ETC, PLAYING BINGO OR WATCHING T.V.

    ……. appears to be in line with the proposal for cross-border raids. BETTER BUSINESS FOR EVERYBODY, FOREIGN AS WELL AS LOCAL POLITICIANS, ALL ALL SIDES OF THE BORDER.

    Carrying out such raids would probably provoke a new level of anti-U.S. sentiment in Pakistan, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERYBODY (USA INCLUDED) WANTS. ONLY BY CRATING ANTI AMERICANISM, CAN USA CONTINUE WITH THEIR MILITARY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. IF THEY CREATED A SAFE WORLD FOR THEMSELVES AND OTHERS, THEIR “GAME” WOULD BE OVER. REMEMBER THAT “NOBEL PEACE PRIZE” WINNER BARACK OBAMA ASKED LAST YEAR FOR 708 BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, PLUS ANOTHER 33 BILLION SPECIFICALLY FOR DRONES.

    with dangerous political consequences in that country, …WASHINGTON LOVES THIS !!!!!

    ….the behaviour of the national security organs of the United States in the recent past suggests that such dangers are being rationalised. IN POLITICAL LANGUAGE THIS MEANS: “HOW LONG SHALL WE KEEP THE INVASION, OCCUPATION, DESTRUCTION AND EXPLOITATION OF AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ GO ON FOR? HAVE WE CONVINCED OUR AMERICAN POPULATION OF THE THREAT THAT SUCH COUNTRIES REPRESENT FOR OUR SECURITY? IF WE GO, WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD CAN WE START ANOTHER MILITARY CAMPAIGN AND HOW SOON?

    THIS IS “POLITICAL” RATIONALISATION !!!!!!

    • Asad  On December 24, 2010 at 4:44 am

      To me you make plenty of sense.

  • S Turkman  On December 25, 2010 at 9:20 am

    My comments are inserted below.
    It is exactly as I always tell you. Read this: (from the article) and my comments in capitals.

    And the position of the Barack Obama administration…..THEY HAVE “NO” POSITION; THEY, LIKE OTHER GOVERNMENTS, FOLLOW MILITARY INSTRUCTIONS (ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE TO PRETEND THE OPPOSITE).

    .

    TURKMAN: If they follow Military Instructions, how come Gen. McArthur, the conqueror of Japan in WW II was dismissed from his job by President Trueman and Chief of US Army in Afghanistan was dismissed by Pres. Obama?

    ———

    NOT ONLY OF HEADS OF THE ARMED FORCES AND MINISTER OF DEFENSE, BUT ALSO FROM “WAR” (DEATH) SCIENTISTS, WEAPON INDUSTRIALISTS, WEAPON DEALERS, BANKS, ETC, IN SHIRT, THOSE WHO PUT THEM IN POWER.

    .

    TURKMAN: Provide evidence or you are lying …!

    ————-

    …… on the necessity of attacking insurgent safe havens in Pakistan…… THE NECESSITY IS OF ATTACKING, NOTHING ELSE. THE “AIM” OR “TARGET” IS SECONDARY. HAVING PAID ARMED fORCES COSTS A FORTUNE, YOU’RE NOT GOING TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY PLUS YEARS OF TRAINING, TO KEEP THE SOLDIERS, MARINES, ETC, PLAYING BINGO OR WATCHING T.V.

    ……. appears to be in line with the proposal for cross-border raids. BETTER BUSINESS FOR EVERYBODY, FOREIGN AS WELL AS LOCAL POLITICIANS, ALL ALL SIDES OF THE BORDER.

    .

    TURKMAN: How come Obama was able to order Troops out of all populated areas of Iraq and has been withdrawing Troops from Iraq constantly? How come Obama, Clinton and Bush had wanted to reduce troop in Japan, S Korea, Bosnia and Kosovo? How come all of these countries had protested against reduction of Troops? How come US Troops posted in so many countries are not on any Combat operations besides in Afghanistan, when they are attacked?

    ————–
    Carrying out such raids would probably provoke a new level of anti-U.S. sentiment in Pakistan, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERYBODY (USA INCLUDED) WANTS.

    .

    TURKMAN: But is this not in reaction of Taliban Sneak Attacks entering from Pakistan? Who has told Pak Para Military called Taliban to attack US Troop to cause this? USA? Not Pak Army? Who the hell are you trying to fool?

    ————

    ONLY BY CRATING ANTI AMERICANISM, CAN USA CONTINUE WITH THEIR MILITARY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. IF THEY CREATED A SAFE WORLD FOR THEMSELVES AND OTHERS, THEIR “GAME” WOULD BE OVER. REMEMBER THAT “NOBEL PEACE PRIZE” WINNER BARACK OBAMA ASKED LAST YEAR FOR 708 BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, PLUS ANOTHER 33 BILLION SPECIFICALLY FOR DRONES.

    .

    TURKMAN: You are a Liar. Provide Evidence …!

    ——————-
    with dangerous political consequences in that country, …WASHINGTON LOVES THIS !!!!!

    .

    TURKMAN: I am not reading your rest of B.S. because you sound crazy.
    …the behaviour of the national security organs of the United States in the recent past suggests that such dangers are being rationalised. IN POLITICAL LANGUAGE THIS MEANS: “HOW LONG SHALL WE KEEP THE INVASION, OCCUPATION, DESTRUCTION AND EXPLOITATION OF AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ GO ON FOR? HAVE WE CONVINCED OUR AMERICAN POPULATION OF THE THREAT THAT SUCH COUNTRIES REPRESENT FOR OUR SECURITY? IF WE GO, WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD CAN WE START ANOTHER MILITARY CAMPAIGN AND HOW SOON?

    THIS IS “POLITICAL” RATIONALISATION !!!!!!

    • Portugheis Alberto  On December 25, 2010 at 11:03 am

      Turkman, you don’t sound crazy. You sound like perfect material to become and USA agent (perhaps even work for CIA). You’ll make money and have an exciting life of adventure !!!!

      TURKMAN: If they follow Military Instructions, how come Gen. McArthur, the conqueror of Japan in WW II was dismissed from his job by President Trueman and Chief of US Army in Afghanistan was dismissed by Pres. Obama?

      ALBERTO: McArthur, after his good money making days in the 30s, as Chief-of-Sraff of the USA Army, was recalled to serve professionally (for which he was VERY WELL PAID) in 1941, after Roosevelt Federalized the Philippines Army, as commander of US Armed Forces in the Far East. A series of disasters followed, starting with the destruction of his Air Force on December 8, 1941, and the invasion of the Philippines by the Japanese. MacArthur’s forces were soon compelled to withdraw to Bataan, where they held out until May 1942. However, in March 1942, MacArthur, his family and his staff left Corregidor in boats and, and “escaped” to Australia.

      His Medal of Honour was awarded to him for his defense of the Philippines. After more than two years of fighting in the Pacific, something he truly enjoyed, he fulfilled a promise to return to the Philippines. He officially accepted Japan’s surrender on September 2, 1945.

      By the time he reached 71 years of age, he would have like to stay in his position, but someone younger and with more sympathies in the Democratic Party was required. The fact that on April 11, 1951, MacArthur was removed from command by President Truman, doesn’t mean it was Truman’s decision. The President is the “spokesperson”, the one who gets better paid for endandering his life. Mc Arthur was very happy in his new job, as Chairman of the Board of Remington Rand.

      ———

      TURKMAN: Provide evidence or you are lying …!

      ALBERTO: In my work with Transcend (Peace through dialogue, not weapons), Abolition of War, CAAT (Campaign Against the Arms Trade), the European Network for Peace and Human Rights and the lobbying the British Government for a Ministry for Peace, I met/meet lots of politicians who all agree with what I say. The politicians in the Serbian Government who nominated me for the Nobel Peace Prize said that had it not been for the pressure by USA, UK, Russia, etc, buy and use weapons (for which Milosevic and his accomplices were very well paid), they’d have never been at war with any country.

      Read “Rogue State”, by William Blum, who spent over 20 years with CIA, organising revolutions, wars and assassinations in Latin America, on behalf of the USA Government.

      A now University Professor in Israel, who spent almost 20 years with Mossad, said in a lecture in England “Palestineans and Israelis cannot live in Peace because of money and ideology”. Then added “note that I said MONEY first. The politician in power had good ideas, a good ideology, to achieve Peace and Justive for both the Palestinean and the Israeli people, for all Muslims and Jews to leave together in great harmony. However, money interferes and no Peace is possible. This applies equally to Israeli as to Palestinean politicians. Remember Arafat died a multi-millionaire. Abbas’ Government i still Mrs Arafat for those millions Arafat put in Swiss and French Banks.

      ————-

      TURKMAN: How come Obama was able to order Troops out of all populated areas of Iraq and has been withdrawing Troops from Iraq constantly? How come Obama, Clinton and Bush had wanted to reduce troop in Japan, S Korea, Bosnia and Kosovo? How come all of these countries had protested against reduction of Troops? How come US Troops posted in so many countries are not on any Combat operations besides in Afghanistan, when they are attacked?

      ALBERTO: Any President of the US becomes Chief of the USA Armed Forces, so Obama has the right and the obligation to speak. Obama, like other Presidents, doesn’t want to be assassinated, like Lincoln and Kennedy. Same with Clinton and Bush. After they did/do their “business”, they are willing to “say” what people expect them to say. Obama, before becoming President promised to end Iraqi and Afghan occupation. Soon after being elected, he sent another 30,000 troops to Afghanistan !!!!!!. The reduction of US troops in Iraq is possible for 2 reasons: a) they need US troops to train and prepare for other military campaigns and b) they replace them (but this naver makes the press) by troops from many poor countries (Latin American and African in particular) they’ve been training.

      .

      TURKMAN: But is this not in reaction of Taliban Sneak Attacks entering from Pakistan? Who has told Pak Para Military called Taliban to attack US Troop to cause this? USA? Not Pak Army? Who the hell are you trying to fool?

      ALBERTO: How come the Taliban can carry our sneak attacks? how can arms and missiles reach them in the caverns where the hide and train. If players from a football team attack the players from the opponent team, do you also ask the question “who ordered these attacks?” if nobody attacks first, how can you have a game of football? the same happens with war. Some time ago I was discussing the subject with four commanders of the British Navy. One of them said: “Alberto, you’re so right !! if it wasn’t for people like us, (the military) ready to make wars, ready to kill and risked being killed, politicians would be vey poor !!!!! Their big business is wars, but they couldn’t have them without us.

      ————

      ALBERTO said: “NOBEL PEACE PRIZE” WINNER BARACK OBAMA ASKED LAST YEAR FOR 708 BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, PLUS ANOTHER 33 BILLION SPECIFICALLY FOR DRONES.”

      .

      TURKMAN: You are a Liar. Provide Evidence …!

      ALBERTO: It was in the news given by Associated Press, by their Defense Journalists Anne Gearan and Anne Flaherty. You can contact Associated Press for evidence.

      Alberto

  • S Turkman  On December 27, 2010 at 10:10 am

    ou are a very cunning man. You wrote the whole history of Gen. Mc Arthur except that he was dismissed because he had wanted to start war with China by attacking the other side of Yellow River, when he was posted in Korea. You really believe you can fool me and the Readers since you have been in company of ignorant people all your life like “AndhoN maiN KaaNrda, Raja”. Its not going to work here as long as I am getting your emails also.
    My other new comments are inserted below in Italics.

    Turkman, you don’t sound crazy. You sound like perfect material to become and USA agent (perhaps even work for CIA). You’ll make money and have an exciting life of adventure !!!!

    TURKMAN: If they follow Military Instructions, how come Gen. McArthur, the conqueror of Japan in WW II was dismissed from his job by President Trueman and Chief of US Army in Afghanistan was dismissed by Pres. Obama?

    ALBERTO: McArthur, after his good money making days in the 30s, as Chief-of-Sraff of the USA Army, was recalled to serve professionally (for which he was VERY WELL PAID) in 1941, after Roosevelt Federalized the Philippines Army, as commander of US Armed Forces in the Far East. A series of disasters followed, starting with the destruction of his Air Force on December 8, 1941, and the invasion of the Philippines by the Japanese. MacArthur’s forces were soon compelled to withdraw to Bataan, where they held out until May 1942. However, in March 1942, MacArthur, his family and his staff left Corregidor in boats and, and “escaped” to Australia.

    His Medal of Honour was awarded to him for his defense of the Philippines. After more than two years of fighting in the Pacific, something he truly enjoyed, he fulfilled a promise to return to the Philippines. He officially accepted Japan’s surrender on September 2, 1945.

    By the time he reached 71 years of age, he would have like to stay in his position, but someone younger and with more sympathies in the Democratic Party was required. The fact that on April 11, 1951, MacArthur was removed from command by President Truman, doesn’t mean it was Truman’s decision. The President is the “spokesperson”, the one who gets better paid for endandering his life. Mc Arthur was very happy in his new job, as Chairman of the Board of Remington Rand.

    ———

    TURKMAN: Provide evidence or you are lying …!

    ALBERTO: In my work with Transcend (Peace through dialogue, not weapons), Abolition of War, CAAT (Campaign Against the Arms Trade), the European Network for Peace and Human Rights and the lobbying the British Government for a Ministry for Peace, I met/meet lots of politicians who all agree with what I say. The politicians in the Serbian Government who nominated me for the Nobel Peace Prize said that had it not been for the pressure by USA, UK, Russia, etc, buy and use weapons (for which Milosevic and his accomplices were very well paid), they’d have never been at war with any country.

    .

    TURKMAN: Here connivingly, you have erased, what I had answered for. What you have written is not a proof of anything. You want me to believe your words, when I do not know you at all? Which country was Yugoslavian Serbs at war with besides Yugoslavia’s own Moslim and Croatian Citizens? You were nominated for Peace Prize by Christian Moslim Killing Serb Butchers? I guess, this is your great qualification to get barred from this forum of Moslims.

    —————-

    Read “Rogue State”, by William Blum, who spent over 20 years with CIA, organising revolutions, wars and assassinations in Latin America, on behalf of the USA Government.

    .

    TURKMAN: I don’t have to because Blum was never an impartial Reporter. Could you tell me, how many dollars has USA made selling Arms to Latin America, where even a large country like Mexico does not have any Tanks?

    —————-

    A now University Professor in Israel, who spent almost 20 years with Mossad, said in a lecture in England “Palestineans and Israelis cannot live in Peace because of money and ideology”. Then added “note that I said MONEY first. The politician in power had good ideas, a good ideology, to achieve Peace and Justive for both the Palestinean and the Israeli people, for all Muslims and Jews to leave together in great harmony. However, money interferes and no Peace is possible. This applies equally to Israeli as to Palestinean politicians. Remember Arafat died a multi-millionaire. Abbas’ Government i still Mrs Arafat for those millions Arafat put in Swiss and French Banks.

    .

    TURKMAN: What the hell this has to do with, what we were discussing? Are you drinking?

    ————-

    TURKMAN: How come Obama was able to order Troops out of all populated areas of Iraq and has been withdrawing Troops from Iraq constantly? How come Obama, Clinton and Bush had wanted to reduce troop in Japan, S Korea, Bosnia and Kosovo? How come all of these countries had protested against reduction of Troops? How come US Troops posted in so many countries are not on any Combat operations besides in Afghanistan, when they are attacked?

    ALBERTO: Any President of the US becomes Chief of the USA Armed Forces, so Obama has the right and the obligation to speak. Obama, like other Presidents, doesn’t want to be assassinated, like Lincoln and Kennedy. Same with Clinton and Bush. After they did/do their “business”, they are willing to “say” what people expect them to say. Obama, before becoming President promised to end Iraqi and Afghan occupation. Soon after being elected, he sent another 30,000 troops to Afghanistan !!!!!!.

    .

    TURKMAN: Lying again. He had not promised to call back troops from Afghanistan and when there has been elections held twice in a country, that can not be called US Occupied. It was Pakistan Occupied before US Attacked. You have cunningly switched the subject again. I had provided proof that you were lying in your post. You had written Generals run the Foreign Policy of USA and US Presidents are their sub-subservient. I had asked, how did then Gen. McArthur and the General, who was Chief of US Army in Afghanistan could have been dismissed by their Presidents? You have been defeated because you have been proven wrong therefore, you switched the subject to give an impression that you have not been caught lying. The same old trick out Mollaas use all the time. Nothing new.

    ——————-
    The reduction of US troops in Iraq is possible for 2 reasons: a) they need US troops to train and prepare for other military campaigns and b) they replace them (but this naver makes the press) by troops from many poor countries (Latin American and African in particular) they’ve been training.

    .

    TURKMAN: This is another irrelevant subject again. It has nothing to do with what I had asked you to answer. And what else has US Troops been doing in Afghanistan? US has not been training Afghan Police and Troops? Which world you live in?

    ————–

    TURKMAN: But is this not in reaction of Taliban Sneak Attacks entering from Pakistan? Who has told Pak Para Military called Taliban to attack US Troop to cause this? USA? Not Pak Army? Who the hell are you trying to fool?

    ALBERTO: How come the Taliban can carry our sneak attacks?

    .

    TURKMAN: Go ask them …!

    ————-

    how can arms and missiles reach them in the caverns where the hide and train.

    .

    TURKMAN: Who says they live in Caverns? Who says Pak Army does not supply them Weapons? Are all my people living in Waziristan blind? Can’t they see, what is going on? Can’t they see, how they are bombed by Pak Army if they try to kick Taliban out? Don’t PushToons of PakhToon Khwah know, who is killing their people?

    —————

    If players from a football team attack the players from the opponent team, do you also ask the question “who ordered these attacks?”

    .

    TURKMAN: Yeah but this is not a Football Game short Brawl. This is 6 year old Sneak Attacking being caused by Pakistan Army that re-armed Taliban and started infiltrating them back in to Afghanistan by the end of 2003. Taliban are Pak Army Trained Commandos on Pak Army Pay Roll, not ordinary civilians.

    ———

    if nobody attacks first, how can you have a game of football? the same happens with war.

    .

    TURKMAN: Now you are really sounding insane .

    ———–

    Some time ago I was discussing the subject with four commanders of the British Navy. One of them said: “Alberto, you’re so right !! if it wasn’t for people like us, (the military) ready to make wars, ready to kill and risked being killed, politicians would be vey poor !!!!! Their big business is wars, but they couldn’t have them without us.

    .

    TURKMAN: Lying again because again you are not going to provide name of those Commanders of the British Navy. Why do you have to Bullshit so much?

    ————

    ALBERTO said: “NOBEL PEACE PRIZE” WINNER BARACK OBAMA ASKED LAST YEAR FOR 708 BILLION DOLLARS FOR THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT, PLUS ANOTHER 33 BILLION SPECIFICALLY FOR DRONES.”

    .

    TURKMAN: You are a Liar. Provide Evidence …!

    ALBERTO: It was in the news given by Associated Press, by their Defense Journalists Anne Gearan and Anne Flaherty. You can contact Associated Press for evidence.

    Alberto

    .

    TURKMAN: Its not exactly what you said. You have twisted their words to make them sound, what you had wanted to say, not them. Stop this B.S. Its not going to work here.

    ——————

    • Portugheis Alberto  On December 27, 2010 at 10:13 am

      Turkman, you do rush to conclusions. Not having the time to tell “every detail” of McArthur’s up and downs, doesn’t mean I’m cunning. In a hurry, I gave you one reason for his dismissal, simply because you asked. I don’t understand why you needed to waste my time, since you also know whay McArthur was dismissed. By the way, who are “AndhoN maiN KaaNrda,Raja”?????

      “What you have written is not a proof of anything.” MY PROOF IS ALL THE WARS IN THE WORLD. WARS THAT 99% OF THE POPULATION DON’T WANT, BUT THE POWERFUL BUSINESSMEN WHO RUN THE WORLD, FORCE US TO HAVE.

      “You want me to believe your words, when I do not know you at all?” I NEVER SAID I WANT YOU TO BELIEVE MY WORDS.

      “Which country was Yugoslavian Serbs at war with besides Yugoslavia’s own Moslim and Croatian Citizens?” CROATIA, SERBIA, BOSNIA, HERZEGOVINA, MONTENEGRO, MACEDONIA, SLOVENIA, ETC, WERE ALL “YUGOSLAVIA”. SEPARATING THEM CREATED A WONDERFUL BUSINESS FOR THE WEAPON INDUSTRY, TO KEEP U.N. FORCES OCCUPIED AND TO ADVANCE THE U.S.A. AGENDA.

      THE EASIEST MOLES MOLES TO BECOME VICTIMS OF THIS SCENARIO WERE THE TWO CHRISTIAN CHURCHES, WHO’VE BEEN FIGHTING AND KILLING EACH OTHER FOR CENTURIES: THE CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH (SERBIA) AND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (CROATIA).

      I REMEMBER WHEN THE SON OF SERBIAN MILOSEVIC WAS INTERVIEWED IN CALIFORNIA AND ASKED HOW COULD HE – BEING A YOUNG MAN AND NOT WORKING – BE DRIVING THE MOST EXPENSIVE AMERICAN CAR AND SMOKING THE MOST EXPENSIVE CUBAN CIGARS. HIS REPLY WAS “MY FATHER MAKES LOTS OF MONEY”. OF COURSE HE DID NOT COMMENT ON “HOW” HIS FATHER MADE HIS FORTUNE.

      ONCE THE HATRED IN AND DEVASTATION TO SERBIA AND CROATIA DONE, THE WARMONGERS TURNED TO THE NEXT EASY MOLES; A CONFRONTATION BETWEEN THE CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH (SERBIA) AND THE MUSLIM CHURCH (KOSOVO). THIS WOULD KEEP N.A.T.O.’S FORCES OCCUPIED.

      I HAD AT THE TIME TWO FRIENDS IN SWITZERLAND, ONE A CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX THE OTHER A MUSLIM, WHO WERE BUSINESS PARTNERS IN THE USA/UN PLAN OF FORMING A “KOSOVO LIBERATION ARMY”, TO PREPARE THE GROUND FOR CIVIL WAR AND FOR NATO INTERVENTION. VERY RICH THEY BECAME, BRIBING ALBANIANS TO ALLOW THE WEAPONS AND THE TRAINERS INTO KOSOVO.

      “You were nominated for Peace Prize by Christian Moslim Killing Serb Butchers?” WEAPONS HAVE NO RELIGIOUS, POLITICAL COLOUR OR NATIONALITY” ANYBODY KILLING IS A BUTCHER. BY THE WAY, THE “CHARMING” TORTURE INSTRUMENTS USED IN KOSOVO, ARE MADE IN THE UK.

      “I don’t have to because Blum was never an impartial Reporter”. BLUM IS “NOT” A REPORTER. HE WRITES NOW, OF HIS YEARS OF EXPERIENCED WORKING FOR THE U.S. IN SOME LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES. HE IS SO THOROUGH, THAT WHEN I ASKED HIM WHY DIDN’T HE INCLUDE DETAILS OF SIMILER EVENTS IN ARGENTINA AND OTHER COUNTRIES NOT MENTIONED IN HIS BOOKS, HE REPLIED “BECAUSE I DIDN’T WORK IN THOSE COUNTRIES AND I ONLY WRITE ABOUT COUNTRIES WHERE I WAS DIRECTLY INVOLVED AND HAVE NOT ONLY MY PERSONAL DIARIES, BUT ALSO ALL THE NECESSARY DOCUMENTATION TO PROVE WHAT I’M SAYING, SHOULD I BE ASKED TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE.

      “Could you tell me, how many dollars has USA made selling Arms to Latin America, where even a large country like Mexico does not have anyTanks?” MEXICO IS NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE TANKS. IT WOULD BE A PROBLEM FOR U.S.A. DON’T FORGET HISTORY. THE U.S. STOLE MORE THAN HALF OF MEXICO AND MEXICO WANTS THAT BACK. HOWEVER, U.S.A. LIKE TO FIGHT HER WARS IN FAR AWAY LANDS, NOT ON HER OWN TERRITORY.

      TO COMPENSATE, U.S.A. HAS ALLOWED A FEW MEXICAN FAMILIES TO MAKE FORTUNES AND RUN THE COUNTRY. THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD LIVES IN MEXICO. THOSE FAMILIES, PLAYING THE ROLE OF POLITICIANS, HAVE ALLOWED THE MEXICAN ECONOMY TO BE SWALLOWED UP BY AMERICA (THE N.A.F.T.A. TREATY) AND HAVE REPLACED PANAMA (SINCE THE ARREST OF NORIEGA) IN THE DRUG TRAFFIC FROM SOUTH AMERICA (MAINLY COLOMBIA, PERU, ECUADOR AND BOLIVIA) TO THE U.S.

      THERE IS MUCH MORE TO IT, WHICH I’M SURE YOU KNOW.

      “What the hell this has to do with, what we were discussing? Are you drinking?” WE ARE – ALL COUNTRIES – INTERCONNECTED. WE ARE IN A GLOBAL WORLD, IN THE BUSINESS SENSE OF THE WORLD. I REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS WITH AFRICANS WHO COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY HAD SO MANY UNWANTED WARS, THAT BROUGHT SO MUCH SUFFERING, HUNGER, DEVASTATION TO THEIR COUNTRIES. LITTLE DID THEY SUSPECT THAT AN UGANDAN AND AN ANGOLAN (THE UGANDAN A LAWYER) WERE LIVING IN WASHINGTON, WITH U.S.A. “PROTECTION”, ARRANGING THEIR WARS, SENDING THE WEAPONS, TRAINING OFFICIAL AND MERCENARY ARMIES, ALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH WASHINGTON AND CIA PLANS AND INSTRUCTIONS.

      AT THE MOMENT I’M READING A THOROUGH ACCOUNT OF THE GOVERNMENT OF PRESIDENT ARTURO FRONDIZI OF ARGENTINA. IT IS NOT COINCIDENCE THAT ALL THAT HAPPENED DURING THE FRONDIZI PRESIDENCY, INCLUDING HIS DOWNFALL, IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO HIS VISITS TO WASHINGTON, TO THE WHITE HOUSE, IMF, WORLD BANK AND TO SECRET MEETINGS HIS MINISTERS HELD WITH WASHINGTON REPRESENTATIVES IN VARIOUS AMERICAN AND CENTRAL AMERICAN LOCATIONS.

      .

      “Lying again.” LYING IS WHEN SOMEONE IS CONSCIOUSLY HIDING THE TRUTH. IF SOMEONE MAKES A GENUINE MISTAKE WHEN STATING SOMETHING, IT IS NOT A LIE.

      “He – OBAMA – had not promised to call back troops from Afghanistan” YOU MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN WHAT HE SAID AT THE TIME OF THE INVASION. WHAT HE SAID AT THE TIME OF THE ELCTORAL CAMPAIGN IS NEITHER HER NOR THERE. PROSPECTIVE PRESIDENTS HAVE THEIR SPEECHES WRITTEN FOR THEM BY SPEECH WRITERS WHO RECEIVE THEIR ORIGINAL TEXT FROM POLITICAL ANALYSTS AND PSYCHOLOGISTS WORKING FOR THE “POSSIBLE” FUTURE PRESIDENT. IN THESE SPEECHES, ASPIRING CANDIDATES HAVE TO FIND A BALANCE BETWEEN PLEASING THE GENERAL PUBLIC, AS WELL AS THEIR POWERFUL SUPPORTERS (BANKS, WEAPON INDUSTRY, PRESS BARONS, OIL AND GOLD MAGNATES, ETC)

      “You had written Generals run the Foreign Policy of USA and US Presidents are their sub-subservient.” I EXPRESSED MYSELF WRONGLY. WHAT I MEANT IS THAT WITHOUT HER ARMED FORCES, U.S.A. COULD NOT CARRY OUT THEIR “PROJECTS”, WITHIN U.S.A. BORDERS AS IN THE REST OF THE WORLD. THIS IS HOW IT ALWAYS HAPPENED. ENGLAND COULD NOT HAVE INVADED USA, INDIA, CHINA, MANY AFRICAN COUNTRIES, ETC, WITHOUT ITS MILITARY.

      “This – The reduction of US troops in Iraq – is another irrelevant subject again.” AGAIN I DISAGREE WITH YOU. IT IS “ALL” VERY MUCH CONNECTED. OF COURSE FOR U.S.A. MOLES OR CIA AGENTS AND IT NOT ALWAYS OBVIOUS, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPELLED TO CONCENTRATE ON THEIR PARTRICULAR MISSION. BUT THOSE AT THE FOREIGN OFFICE KNOW THE FULL PICTURE.

      A FRIEND OF MINE WAS AMBASSADOR TO NIGERIA AND OFTEN WOULD SAY “I WISH I WAS SENT TO EUROPE, SO THAT I DON’T HAVE TO DEAL AGAIN WITH THIS DIRTY WEAPON AND RELIGION BUSINESS”. AFTER A FEW MONTHS AT THE EMBASSY IN NORWAY, HE SAID “IT’S ALL THE SAME”. WHY WAS IT ALL THE SAME, BECAUSE HE WAS WORKING FOR THE COUNTRY THAT SENT HIM ABROAD AND PAID HIS SALARY, NOT FOR THE COUNTRIES OF HIS TEMPORARY RESIDENCE.

      “And what else has US Troops been doing in Afghanistan? US has not been training Afghan Police and Troops? Which world you live in?” HAVE I EVER CONTRADICTED YOU IN THIS? I AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT, BUT I’LL COMPLETE IT. THAY HAVE ALSO TRAINED TALIBAN. REMEMBER OUR QUITE RECENT HISTORY, WHEN TALIBAN WAS WORKING FOR – AND PAID BY – CIA. “FREEDOM FIGHTERS” THEY WERE COLD.

      TO MY QUESTION “How come the Taliban can carry our sneak attacks?” YOU REPLY

      “Go ask them …!” WELL, I DON’T NEED TO. I KNOW.

      “Who says Pak Army does not supply them Weapons?” THE QUESTION SHOULD BE “WHO SELLS THE WEAPONS TO TALIBAN AND SENDS THEM “VIA” THE PAK ARMY?”

      “Are all my people living in Waziristan blind?” NO, BUT THE FRONTIER ARMY ARE PAID TO PRETEND BLINDNESS.

      “Can’t they see, what is going on?” OF COURSE THEY CAN, BUT ARE NOT “IN THE BUSINESS” TO HAVE A SAY.

      “Yeah but this is not a Football Game short Brawl” IT IS A “WAR” GAME.

      “This is 6 year old Sneak Attacking” TO STOP IT , YOU HAVE 2 OPTIONS. THE FIRST IS THE ONE I PROPOSE: AN END TO A MILITARISED WORLD; THE SECOND, CREATE A SIMILAR PROBLEM ELSEWHERE, SO THAT THE WAR BUSINESS CAN CONTINUE TO THRIVE.

      “Taliban are Pak Army Trained Commandos on Pak Army Pay Roll, not ordinary civilians.” AGAIN, WE SHOULD ASK “WHERE DOES THE PAK ARMY MONEY COME FROM?”

      TO MY STATEMENT “if nobody attacks first, how can you have a game of football? the same happens with war.”, YOU SAY “Now you are really sounding insane.” HERE I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT, WITHOUT THINKING YOU ARE INSANE, YOU ARE IN A TINY MINORITY. MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, AS WELL AS ALL MILITARY STRATEGISTS KNOW THAT WHAT I SAY IS HOW IT HAPPENS.

      WHEN I MENTIONED THE “four commanders of the British Navy” AGAIN YOU JUMPED AT ME WITH THE ACCUSATION “Lying again because again you are not going to provide name of those Commanders of the British Navy” A) WHY WILL I BE LYING? I SAID “FOUR COMMANDERS” BUT I COULD HAVE TOLD YOU 100 COMMANDERS, BECAUSE I HAVE HELD THE SAME CONVERSATION WITH MANY MILITARIES, AS WELL AS WITH PEOPLE INVOLVED IN WEAPON RESEARCH, MANUFACTURING AND TRADING. IN ENGLAND I HAVE A FRIEND WHO STOPPED WORKING FOR A BOMB MAKING FIRM, WHEN NATO STARTED DESTROYING HIS COUNTRY (SERBIA) WITH THEM. IN WASHINGTON STATE (SPOKANE, TO BE PRECISE) I HAVE ANOTHER FRIEND WORKING IN BOMB MAKING. AFTER TELLING HOW MUCH HE HATES WARS, HE WAS SO HAPPY OVER THE DESTRUCTION AND MANY DEATHS IN THE SERBIA/KOSOVO MILITARY CAMPAIGN, BECAUSE U.S.A. FIGHTER PLANES WERE USING THE POWERFUL BOMBS MADE BY HIS FIRM AND THIS COULD ONLY MEAN ONE THING: MORE ORDERS, MORE MONEY.

      OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORT, YOU WROTE: “Its not exactly what you said. You have twisted their words to make them sound, what you had wanted to say, not them. Stop this B.S. Its not going to work here.” I STILL HAVE THE REPORT WITH ME, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SCAN IT TO YOU? 9AND TO EVERYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO SEE IT.

      Have a good day,

      Alberto

  • Katherina Cernansky  On January 6, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    I would like to thank you for the efforts you have made in writing this post. I am hoping the same best work from you in the future as well. In fact your creative writing abilities has inspired me to start my own BlogEngine blog now.

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