Raymond Davis, Murder and Vienna Convention 1961

This ia a Pakpotpourri Exclusive


By: Yasmeen Ali

You cannot open the TV, or read a paper here without more and more news about Raymond Davis and his murderous act. His killing on Jan. 27 of two young Pakistanis has created international waves, too, plunging the Pakistan-America relationship into stormy waters.

A great deal has been written about the case: Raymond Davis’s employment status, whether he is a diplomat or not, who his victims were and what led to their demise at his hands, and finally whether or not Davis can be detained and ultimately tried under the Pakistani Law.

Interestingly though, nobody in the media has made a study of the Vienna Diplomatic Coventions that discuss diplomatic immunity. The convention of 1961 gets cited routinely by the American government, which claims it grants all diplomatic workers immunity from prosecution.

But that claim overstates the case. The actual document — never actually quoted — is more nuanced.

A friend notes, “The issue is not who the two Pakistanis were. The real issue is: The US media has confirmed what the US government is denying: Davis runs a private security firm. He is a military contractor. He is registered in Colorado as the owner of a security firm.” He says the questions that should be asked are: What was his real job in Lahore/Islamabad/Peshawar? And can a diplomats carry an unlicensed gun?”

This same friend also suggests that the indentity of the two Pakistani shooting victims — according to a number of Pakistani reports, and to several in the US, including ABC News, they were working for Pakistani intelligence and were tailing Davis — is a distraction. He says the real issues are what Davis was doing here and secondly, can a so-called “technical advisor”–the term the US State Department finally settled on to describe his job — claim diplomatic immunity?

I would argue, though, that the real issue is a general ignorance concerning what diplomatic immunity is, and whether such immunity extends to all acts of any nature committed by an individual, even if that individual does qualify as a diplomat. All other questions are a distraction.

The concept of diplomatic rights was established in the mid-17th century in Europe and since then came gradually to be accepted throughout the world. These rights were formalized by the 1961 Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which protects diplomats from being persecuted or prosecuted while on a diplomatic mission.

However, if we examine the specific articles of that Vienna Convention of 1961, some interesting facts emerge.

First, Article 29 states that the person of a diplomatic agent shall be inviolable. He shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. The receiving or host state shall treat him with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on his person, freedom or dignity. But those, like the US State Department and Davis’s Pakistani attorney, who demand the release of Raymond Davis on this ground, have obviously neglected to read, or don’t want others to read, the related articles within the Convention which strip away any absolute blanket coverage under the guise of “diplomatic immunity” for visiting or appointed diplomats.

Article 38 of the Vienna Convention 1961 states that except where additional privileges and immunities have been specifically granted by the host State, a diplomatic agent who is a national of or permanently resident in that State shall enjoy only immunity from jurisdiction, and inviolability, in respect of official acts performed in the exercise of his functions.

The above article clearly differentiates between an act carried out as part of his official duties and those done as a personal act. Any actions done personally and outside the ambit of official consular duties shall not be covered by “diplomatic immunity.”

Article 37 of the 1961 convention goes on to reinforce the above limitation on immunity by stating:

…Members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission, together with members of their families forming part of their respective households, shall, if they are not nationals of or permanently resident in the receiving State, enjoy the privileges and immunities specified in articles 29to 35, except that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving State specified in paragraph 1 of article 31 shall not extend to acts performed outside the course of their duties.

The question then becomes not whether or not those murdered were Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI) agents, robbers or fruit sellers, but whether Davis did or did not have diplomatic immunity, but whether his fatal shooting of the two men was conducted while he was involved in performing his official duties.

If the answer to that question is no, Raymond Davis cannot claim diplomatic immunity.

The US State Department is also carefully avoiding mentioning a later treaty, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963. That treaty, which extends and further clarifies, and where there may be a conflict, would supersede the earlier treaty, states in Section II, Article 41 in its first paragraph regarding the “Personal inviolability of consular officers”:

Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.

The law here would seem to be quite clear. If Davis was in Lahore on anything other than official consular business, and if he killed two people “in cold blood” as the Lahore prosecutor has stated, then legal authorities in Pakistan are absolutely within their rights under the Vienna Conventions to be holding him for trial.

If he is released before a judicial determination regarding his claim of immunity, or if he is found to be properly detained but is released anyhow before standing trial for the killings, it would be not because he has diplomatic immunity, but because of political pressure from the US. But that would be something that is outside of the realm of the law.

Yasmeen Ali is a Pakistani attorney who lives in Lahore.

Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.


  • Salman Abbasy  On February 9, 2011 at 4:59 am

    Zabardast! You have just hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer.

  • Shaukat Qadir  On February 9, 2011 at 5:06 am

    A few points:
    1) There are two Geneva Conventions. The 1961 Convention deals with Diplomatic immunity, whereas the 1963 one deals with immunity to Consular employees. Davis, if he qualifies for it, can only be considered a consular employee. Not a diplomat. I will not quote the relevant portion of the 1963 Convention, since they have been quoted by Dave Lindorff in Counter Punch, link is: http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff02082011.html. Look for Dave’s piece which will explain the entire mystery of the individual and confirm that he was almost certainly a spy. And Hyperion, the firm he is supposed to be working for doesn’t exist.
    2) While both Vienna Conventions are the international ones; each country has chosen portions of it only. In Pakistan’s case, we are governed by our own act under the constitution, NOT the Vienna Conventions. Our Act is The Pakistan’s Diplomatic and Consular Privileges Act (IX) of 1972; that is what binds us.
    3) The Question of ‘Reciprocity’ in the Convention is also applicable. The mere fact that the US has consistently denied diplomatic immunity to others for over 100 years, disqualifies the US for seeking diplomatic immunity for its citizens, even if the US’ denial of diplomatic immunity did not affect a Pakistani citizen

    • pakpotpourri2  On February 9, 2011 at 5:19 am

      Thank you Shaukat Qadir Sahib for your educated input. I stand better informed .

    • S U Turkman  On February 9, 2011 at 9:49 pm

      Who has USA denied Diplomatic Immunity?
      * The Squadron Leader of Pak Air Force that was caught with a ton of Heroin?
      * Could you tell me, why was Gen. Zia as President of Pakistan was not arrested in New York by USA for smuggling more than 50 lbs. of Heroin in Ceramic Vases that were part of his Personal Luggage?
      * Why no Employees of Pak Embassy or Consulate are arrested for piling up hundreds of Parking Tickets that they have never paid in USA?

  • SHWEBO  On February 9, 2011 at 5:31 am

    Irrespective of Davis’s status the crime he has committed does not invoke diplomatic immunity. Not withstanding the American influence on our decision makers, our establishment is handling the case appropriatly. Remember Davis was on a clendistine mission as a cover agent and was forced to; not only blow up his cover but resort to extreme act of murder on foreign land which is against the basic teachings of such like missions.This has caused a huge embarrassement to Ms Cinton,Obahma and US. In such a situation due credit goes to Pakistani government for handling the situation well so for as US would like to see an early results and would like to evacuate their “Man”at earliest.

  • Akhtar Khan  On February 9, 2011 at 6:27 am


    I believe I read in Dawn that the investigators found maps of Multan, Sarghoda and Lahore, a telescope, etc. That confirms that the man was doing something that is not acceptable from a diplomat.

    Our honorable Interior Minister has said that he has a diplomatic passport, while Dawn printed one showing that he does not have a diplomatic passport, and the MoFA has not commented.


    • S U Turkman  On February 9, 2011 at 9:55 pm

      Right, right. Possession of maps of Pak cities by a Foreign Guest of Government of Pakistan is against law according to Pak Constitution and Geneva Convention.
      Geneva Convention clearly says, “Nobody should be allowed to defend himself against Armed Robbers in Pakistan”. The same says Pak Constitution, Islam, Allah and Rasool. Allaho Akbar …!
      Kill, kill, kill …!
      Kill that American now …!

    • Sayed Peerzada  On February 11, 2011 at 12:21 pm

      Well Mr. A. Khan,

      Believe me they will hand over the gora back to his native country. Have you ever seen any american gora in any jail of any muslim country??
      So use the wisdom and use this pawn as a bargaining chip and get our innocent people released from their claws. Though my own idea,but I
      just stumbled on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cjjg3tD7io

      Thats my two cents worth, I think now I will go and get me a cup of mojo.

  • Ahmed  On February 9, 2011 at 6:30 am

    I havent heard on western media much on this story. I think there should be a prisoner swap, starting with Afia Siddiqui and many more unfortunate ones.


    • S U Turkman  On February 9, 2011 at 9:57 pm

      Its because US Media does not want Americans to start hating Pakistanis and Pakistan but since you think, USA is at war against Islam and Moslims, you could not understand this wisdom of US Government and American Media.

  • Haroon  On February 9, 2011 at 6:46 am

    The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic relations (1961), which applies to
    the Embassies and their personnel and The Vienna Convention on
    Consular Relations (1963) which applies to Consulates and their staff
    both make it clear in the preamble that “the purpose of such
    privileges and immunities is not to benefit individuals but to ensure
    the efficient performance of the functions of diplomatic missions as
    representing States”

    Artcles 37 & 41, of the Convention of Diplomatic Relations (1961), are
    important and should be carefully read., specially Article 37, (2).
    which makes its clear that in case of Administrative and Technical
    staff of the Embassy there is an exception

    ” that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the
    receiving State specified in paragraph 1 of Article 31 shall not
    extend to acts performed outside the course of their duties.”

    ( Murder at a public place surely cannot be part of the duty of an
    employ of the Embassy, especially in view of their obligation under
    Article 41(1)

    Article 41(1) states that:
    1. Without prejudice to their privileges and
    immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such privileges and
    immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State.
    They also have a duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of that

    The Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, also states in its preamble
    that the purpose of such privileges and immunities is not to benefit
    individuals but to ensure the efficient performance of functions by
    consular posts on behalf of their respective States,

    Article 41, of the Convention on Consular Relations (1963) is very
    important. While confirming the immunities for Consular Officials
    Article 41(1) makes a very important exception in case of grave
    crimes; (Murder is surely a grave crime)

    “1.Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention
    pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a
    decision by the competent judicial authority.”

    Raymond Davis, was identified by US Embassy on January 28, 2011 as a
    member of Administrative and Technical staff of the US consulate at
    Lahore. In that case the Article 41 of the Convention on Consular
    Relations applies which gives no Immunities even to senior Consular
    Officials, (what to speak of Staff) in case of grave crimes.

    Later the US Embassy changed its position and claimed that he was a
    member of Administrative Technical Staff Embassy in Islamabad. If
    that position is accepted then his immunity would be examined in the
    light of Article 37(2) which clarifies;

    “that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the
    receiving State specified in paragraph 1 of Article 31 shall not
    extend to acts performed outside the course of their dutiy

    Murder at a public place surely is an act performed outside the course of Duty

    • Syed Masud  On February 9, 2011 at 11:28 am

      Yes, you are right. I also highlighted some of these provisions in my email of 2 Feb as reproduced below. US Embassy is only making demands for Raymond’s release. It is not quoting any relevant clauses of the two conventions.

      His presence in that crowded area when Americans are regularly being advised against roaming around in Pakistan, Shooting through his wind screen, getting out of his car to take pictures before attempted escape, presence of a back up vehicle, all show that it was a target killing. Who were the targets leaves a big question mark. I feel they knew too much and were not required anymore. Pictures were to be shown to his bosses as mission accomplished.

      Article 37

      The members of the family of a diplomatic agent forming part of his household shall, if they are not nationals of the receiving State, enjoy the privileges and immunities specified in articles 29 to 36. 2. Members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission, together with members of their families forming part of their respective households, shall, if they are not nationals of or permanently resident in the receiving State, enjoy the privileges and immunities specified in articles 29 to 35, except that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving State specified in paragraph 1 of article 31 shall not extend to acts performed outside the course of their duties.

      Did Raymond Davis kill the two persons in performance of his diplomatic duties

      Article 39

      Every person entitled to privileges and immunities shall enjoy them from the moment when his appointment is notified to the Ministry for Foreign Affairs or such other ministry as may be agreed.

      Was our Foreign Ministry notified about his appointment? If yes, under which name?

      • Haroon  On February 9, 2011 at 11:29 am

        Worse still, the authorities are not making it public about their on going investigation so that they may twist the facts any time they want in future. The facts made public once shall be difficult to play with later.

  • Muhammad Ashraf  On February 9, 2011 at 6:59 am

    I am sure & agree with your repot/comments.
    GOD bless you.

  • Tanvir Ahmed Siddiqui  On February 9, 2011 at 7:12 am

    As like always, In the subject matter also, some of our born raised inland and overseas Pakistani scare crows are once again trying to drag us into unneccessary confusion and continued fear of loss. These scare crows are telling our Govt and berieved families of those who are mudered, that what has happened has happened as a destiny. They are now telling everyone to simply forget about the unneccessary matter of trial and justice and let go those killers with honor nad respect. These scare crows are cranking for aseap release and freedom of that American killer who tried his utmost to take a flight from the scene of his own crime after day light point blank murder of two Pakistani citizens but was chazed and finally apprehended by Police. They so simply want every one to forget about that fugitive deserter who crushed another innocent citizen of Pakistan under his vehicle and then successfully escaped to still hiding somewhere inside US Couselate. These scare crows want this nation in general and those families in particular to simply forget about the loss of life of that poor innocent young newly wed wife of Fahim who commited suicide in her desperation and depression after loosing her hope for a free and fair trial and justice of the killer of her husband. These scare crows and weather cocks fluttering around desperatly to warn us all with fatal consequences that in case we do not succumb and do not comply to American demand of releasing that tyrant professional killer, resultantly a country named Pakistan will be bulldozed from the world map and every man identified anywhere as Pakistani will be wiped out and sweeped off from the planet earth. No matter how much legal or illegal their stance is, no matter how genuine their deamnd is, no matter how much justified and unjustified their claim is, and no matter how much fair and unfair their stnad is. Come what may we have to succumb, surrender and have to hand over that tyrant. We otherwise will lose everything like our jobs, wealth, status, air, oxygen, water, light, food, cloth, shelter and what not? This fear mechanism has always forced us and once again forcing us to submit to their authority. This manipulation mechanism and technique of controlling human mind especially through inhouse, home grown elements who live like rabbits in continued fear of loss in our society to always make the job of userpers and upressers much easier. This fear mechanism and technique was exercised on 28th May 2003, thereafter 9/11 and now being applied once again for release of this killer named Raymond Davis. But I am afraid and afirmed to believe that things may not be really so simple this time for anyone especailly because of ongoing Hulla Bloo in TUNISIA< EYGYPT< AMMAN< ALGERIA and else where.

  • Ayaz  On February 9, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Thank you for the update. I sent you another version today. we must all put in our bits to obtain justice on the national level

    Our government( if you can call it that) will only pander to the americans. Its a shame lahore has cooled off on the case. The Lahoiris will have to take direct action themselves. This may not go down well with you as a lawyer, but I feel that is the only way to deal with thes American thugs. As for their threats of stopping all financial aid, I would welcome that. That would effect only the govt. None of this aid goes down to the people any eay. We shall be able to handle it on our own – sans this govt.

  • Dost Gul  On February 9, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Aren’t we missing the forest for the trees? Diplomatic immunity or not, basic human decency or not,rule of law or not, all that becomes irrelevant here.We are once again being forced to do a ‘Musharraf” here. Reminiscent of ‘You are with us or against us’. ‘Take a U-turn now or you will be bombed into stone ages’. Far from moral, rationale and human compulsions. America once again commands instant gratification from its pet state.Release this CIA operative NOW, unconditionally, or get ready to make India the greatest beneficiary of this contrived situation, and be prepared to start eating grass. This whole affair and America’s open drumming up of the issue, are clearly part of the GREAT GAME whereby generating and maintaining a”controlled chaos” in Pakistan is the essential part of the whole dirty process.
    Am I taken in by one of those conspiracy theories ? We will see.

  • Tariq M. Haider  On February 9, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Great, good reseach. In one house hold two researchers
    are like a treasure trove.
    Keep up the good work, and keep on showing light to people.

  • Syed Ataur Rahman  On February 9, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Davis is a professional killer. We don’t even know his real identity, except that he is the boss of some fictitious US company. The Mossad and RAW agents are swarming all around and many are operating in Pakistan aided and abetted by their supremo God Father, CIA. It is fortunate that this time we caught this ferocious agent, unlike when the group of saboteurs almost killed some of the Sri Lankan Cricketers, and which comprehensively ended all international teams from touring Pakistan. Not one was caught or perhaps caught but identities not revealed. There is another American in or perhaps whisked away from Pakistan–the one who crushed an innocent Motor cyclist. He is still at large. We should demand his being produced in a court of law.
    Come on Pakistanis show some courage, some guts in the face of this international bully. How can we allow a murderer to leave our country? I have been a diplomat in UK and we were clearly told (All Vienna Conventions notwithstanding) that we might have diplomatic immunity from everything, but not for murder. Then the diplomat would be tried in the country of the crime unless the home government decides to repatriate him to his country of origin for trial. So what are we talking about and what are the Americans quoting? They want to take this man away so that he does not reveal his clandestine activities to maintain this low intensity war in Pakistan. The suicide bombings, the international pressures, the stick and carrot treatment, putting a jerk kneed pro American government, creating rebellions in various parts of the country to name a few are the activities of our so called ‘friends’.
    This is a good opportunity to stand up to this self appointed global terrorist whose days it seems are numbered. We must at last stand up for our rights. The negative, gruesome and in some cases violent American role worldwide is being exposed every day. Here is a chance we have to loosen ourselves from the iron grip they have on us. What more can they do to us without facing the ill effects of their actions worldwide? So Pakistanis let us rise as one and face this international criminal who gets away with murder but uses all overt and covert means to get out of their own dastardly crimes committed everyday against mostly the Muslims of the world.

    • pakpotpourri2  On February 9, 2011 at 11:01 am

      Sir can a nation living off another’s crumbs stand up against the giver?Economic independence can be the key to most of our ills.

  • Tanvir Ahmed Siddiqui  On February 9, 2011 at 10:21 am

    @DOST GUL SAHAB: Like so many out there Why dont you as well, Get another Passport and Sailout smoothly to heavens of your own dreams..In case you already have another passport and now if you are already living in the heaven than just dont care backhome because those back here are already having a taste of hell more or less…Whatever will be will be..The life’s not our’s to see.

    • Dost Gul  On February 9, 2011 at 2:29 pm

      Brilliant TAS. But I have a better idea.You know you cannot stand up to America, as you live on their dole from inception.Why then pretend sovereignty and feign independence?
      Won’t it be best if we sold ourselves carte blanch to our keeper, openly and shamelessly, once and for all ? You take the lead ,I shall follow. That will save you and me the trouble of traveling down seven seas ,getting a different passport, different nationality etc. As US’s 53rd state out here in Asia you can live happily ever after wherever you may be stuck geographically. Hey, what do you say buddy TAS ?

  • Zafar  On February 9, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Dost Gulyour conclusions are not part of any conspiracy theory but is a fact.I think atleast for once the nation decides to eat grass and take a decision in the true national interest and for the sake of dignity.Appears to be tuff.
    Zafar Akhtar

    • Zubair  On February 9, 2011 at 12:23 pm

      Musharraf was the culprit–to a great extent. However, we have a “democratically” elected Govt–even though appointed by he USA. Is this the time for our Govt to stand up to the tyrant or to repeat what Musharraf did. Afteral, even todate he is blamed for all our ills; Standard Operating Procedure of running Govt—-virsa. We are too deep in American clutches to back out now.

  • Ali Kuli Khan  On February 9, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Brilliant is the only way to describe the article ! I hope all in Pakistan realize that with this incident we have reached the proverbial “Tipping Point” and anyone who does not understand this will be doing so at his own risk.

  • Tanvir Ahmed Siddiqui  On February 9, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Yes Ali Kuli Khan Sahab: this time, THE HUNTER SEEM TO HAVE STUCK INTO THE LOOP OF HIS OWN NET OF TRAPS…”Aap Upnay hee Daam mein Sayaad aa gaya”..As a nation despite all ods and thousands of imperfections WE MUST STAND UP to show to the world that we are not born to only Die..we are actually born to Live and then Die.

  • shafeeq  On February 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Raymond Davis has committed a crime which is totally out of the ambit of his duty even if all he is a diplomat.A driver specially Asian & above all a Pakistani in USA is tried under USA Law if he over runs a dog by mistake so even if he a diplomat any manner should be tried as per Pakistan & no should dictate us (NATION)as to how he should be treated.He should be tried exclusively under Pakistani law because has committed a grave offense.HE DESERVE NO MERCY ALL ALL.


  • Dost Gul  On February 9, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    I hope to God ‘The Tipping Point’ Gen Ali Kuli Khan is pointing to is right around the corner. I get the same sensation. Even if we still remain under our traditional inertia and inaction for reasons, we can now at least see through the American machinations of deceit, double standards and blatant arrogance.

  • Dr Ehtisham  On February 9, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Dear Young Lady,
    All these analyses of law and Geneva convention are trying to create a reality which does not exist.
    Pakistani government is an aging keep of the U.S. and allowed ‘nakhra’ only occasionally. Taliban are akin to extravagant spending tolerated by the master, though with exasperated sighs.
    She has to do the bidding of the U.S. and will give in at the end.

  • Inam Khan  On February 9, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Raymond Davis will have to be released whether he is a diplomat or
    not,whether he shot two robbers or intelligence operatives trying to
    find what he is upto,whether he faked his identity while applying
    for a visa and committed a fraud ,whether he is a hired
    killer,whether a victim’s widow committed sucide on hraring his being
    relaeased,whether he has committed a crime against in USA or Pakistan
    or against international community and people of Pakistan who want a
    revenge for castrination of Dr.Afia .He has to be released bcause
    Americans want to cover up their crimes all over the world.And
    Pakistan can do nothing about it because it needs Ameican Dollars.What
    a shame.Alas we will hav bargained our svereignty by releasing Raymond

  • S U Turkman  On February 9, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Yeah but the problem with your approach is, its against protocols of diplomacy to argue with a friendly nation that Pakistan has been living off Charity of Aid since 1953 and Loans since 1955 that have not been paid back so far. You can only declare a Foreign Government is lying, when you do not want to have good relations with that country and stupid Government of Pakistan has done that exactly.
    All US Aid has been stopped. All Diplomatic and Military Meetings have been canceled. You do not want to release David?
    The next step would be USA ordering all Americans to leave Pakistan. The step after that would be calling US Ambassador back and telling Pak Ambassador to leave USA. Then comes closing down of Embassies. No diplomatic relations means, USA can not only Daisy Bomb but also invade Pakistan. Are you Beggars, ‘Nmak Hraam’ of USA, back-stabbing her in Afghanistan with your Taliban are ready to get so many Pakistanis killed just in your Bigotry against USA?
    Time of B.S. is over because USA is not going to back down and has taken very serious action that can affect future of Pakistan and all of you. Wake up Bigots …!

  • B. Syed  On February 10, 2011 at 1:22 am

    It is high time that the ARROGANT persons like this man, ought to be treated according to Laws given to JEWS, CHRISTIANS, and MUSLIMS by their CREATOR, (one such Tenet is “Thou Shalt Not Kill’), and not by MAN-MADE SECULAR LAWS , having absolutely no regard for HUMAN LIFE! Only God knows “how many innocent people” have been killed by such folks based upon their hidden prejudices, described in the annals of HISTORY.

    B. Syed

  • Parvez Amin  On February 10, 2011 at 1:57 am

    Thank you for presenting quotes from the Vienna Convention. The positions are becoming clearer as new information comes in. There seems to be a high probability that the following scenes will be enacted:
    1. Raymond Davis will not undergo punishment, convicted or not.
    2. He will be whisked out of Pakistan under mysterious circumstances with the connivance of our leadership.
    3. We will discuss this in our emails and move on to the next indignity committed on Pakistan.
    I lived in the US for a long time and remember the slang epithets applied to people who behave in this disgraceful manner. To put it politely, the first has to do with chicken droppings and the second one with the absence of testicles. When this happens, the target is ridiculed and subjected to further indignities.
    There is a response for ending such indignities, but it is very impolite – and very effective. I will convey it individually to any member of this group who wants to know.
    Having, arrived at this conclusion, my mind is at rest and I am lying back and forcing myself to enjoy what is being done to us.

    Parvez Amin

  • Javed  On February 10, 2011 at 2:08 am

    Being a signatory of Vienna Convention does not mean that every Tom, Dick and Harry has the immunity. Only a few high ranking officials of an embassy have the diplomatic immunity. Even that may have some limitations and may not allow the kind of act this security contractor has performed in Lahore .

    Some agencies have already dug out his ( Davis ) business, address and quite a bit of related information.

    He and his wife apparently run a security outfit and they themselves are the two employees. Their company’s name has been reported to be Hyperion Protective Services, LLC, registered in Las Vegas , Navada , USA .

    There is absolutely no way a security contractor can enjoy the diplomatic immunity. Just because the Americans are claiming and Pakistan is a signatory of the Vienna Convention does not conclude that the person in question is eligible for such immunity. Pakistan may have to let him go for other reasons – that is an entirely different story. The Americans have killed over 2000 innocent people in FATA – that is against all international laws and protocols and no one has done a thing about it.

    The Americans are going around and acting like a bull in a china shop because there is no one to stop the mad bull. As far as the laws and rules are concerned they are quite clear, both the international as well the laws of Pakistan . As far as his ( Davis ) line of defense on grounds of self defense is concerned – the circumstantial evidence may not stand up to the scrutiny of a smart prosecutor. But then, again, every thing is possible in the land where laws are selectively applied according to the person involved etc.

    I suppose every thing is possible in Pakistan where they handed over Mullah Zaeef, the ambassador of Afghanistan in Islamabad to the Americans. That was Musharraf’s fine mess, trying to get personal recognition from Uncle Sam. I wonder why Vienna Convention evaporated in this case? I suppose Musharraf does not come from a back ground where the security of an ambassador is the duty of the host country similar to the security of a personal guest.


    • KAMAL KHAN  On February 10, 2011 at 2:09 am

      The question should be Will Raymond Davis Survive being Hanged for these Murders. USA NEVER honored the Geneva Convention Examples of which are amply available in IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN & Now in PAKISTAN……. Besides What has USA Really done for Pakistan – Answer ZILCH, Nada , Nothing We have Over US$ 80 Billion losses because of USA’s war on Terror not counting the Losses in terms on Human Beings being Killed.
      Secondly Dr. Aafia Siddiqui and many Other Missing Persons who landed Up in US Custody and were Tortured by the US Armed Forces is Ample Proof that They NEVER INTEND Pakistan to be Stable and they will keep up their Drone attacks (Actually this is War on Pakistan). Ah yes have we Forgotten what a US Senator said about Pakistani’s ….. “That we will even sell Our Mothers for Dollars” … Should i state further what American attitude and mental state is towards Pakistani’s . The “FREE MARKET” access talked about for the Past 3 years is No Where to be Seen… Such Lies and Deceit “Always” by Americans towards Pakistan and Pakistani’s has Time again shown us that we should clearly HATE America and Americans as they do pakistan and Pakistani’s . I’ve Lived there and know them well enough to understand that They will NEVER i repeat NEVER Help Pakistan & Pakistani’s .

      Kamal Khan

  • zohaib  On February 10, 2011 at 5:55 am

    I must say thank you for this article or report

  • Syed Bilgrami  On February 10, 2011 at 6:24 am

    Good work YAA-keep it up and pray for your success in your mission with which you launched this forum.

    Following are My own views and are NOT BY ANY WAY MEANS to hurt others feelings or denying their views.

    With the quoted articles Vienna/Geneva Convention ( taking it to be Correct )I am convinced Raymond is not entitled to any immunity.

    YAA, Masha Allah, Good thing of your forum is that my knowledge on various political, international and national affairs is being updated and also being educated on some new subjects. Getting to know our Honourable Professors, Lawyers,Generals,Politicians,etc.

    Are we Ehsan Faramosh,Beggars or Opportunist, YES ONLY when our National and Peoples security is at stake.

    Hatred for Overseas Pakistanis was also observed. There is a big misconception about overseas Pakistanis. My observation about them is that they not only contribute towards maintaining the required Foreign Reserves to keep the country’s economy rolling, they are the Embassodors of Islam, Pakistan and our Culture overseas, particularly in non muslim states ( exceptions are always there) and it is my challenge that they and their children are better Muslims, practicing and in Islamic knowledge as well as Sharia. The Question is what force them to leave their mother land. There are other factors other than financials. Self Respect;

    Last; can any one on the forum please solve one mystry:
    ” Why is every one blaming General Muharraf for all the current situation Pakistan and its lovely, innocent people are going thru. Roz Martay hain aur Roz aik naya Janam Latay Hain. Why are we forgetting the Periods of Late General Zia: Afgahn War and import of Kalashankhof Culture”

    We can talk and pose what ever, abuse our past and present politicians, leaders, generals, etc but will never come up with the Options to Resolve the Crisis.

    To me the Only Solution to our crisis is lack of Education.
    Education at 110%, sincerity and honesty. “Pakistan and People of Pakistan First”

    • pakpotpourri2  On February 10, 2011 at 11:28 am

      Thank U Bilgrami Sahib.It is words like your’s,the support that renews my energy to repay our country for the izzat & status we enjoy.
      The purpose of the forum is exchange of views & information, rising about personal likes & dislikes, prejudices and proganda.
      This is for YOU Pakistan!

  • Laila  On February 10, 2011 at 11:32 am

    This article has been published in PAKISTAN OBSERVER dated 10/2/2011.
    Here is the link:http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=75481

    • Salman Abbasy  On February 10, 2011 at 11:38 am

      “Very good, it deserves to be widely read. Let’s see what rabbit is pulled out of the hat by Ambassador Haqqani, our master magician”.

  • Syed Masud  On February 10, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Details of diplomatic immunity in US are as follows. The chart is attached also for clearer view. Our diplomats should have know about it.


    Diplomatic immunity in the United States

    The following chart outlines the immunities afforded to foreign diplomatic personnel residing in the United States.[37] In general, these rules follow the Vienna Convention and apply in other countries as well.

    May be arrested or detained
    Residence may be entered subject to ordinary procedures
    May be issued traffic ticket
    May be subpoenaed as witness
    May be prosecuted
    Official family member
    Diplomatic agent
    Same as sponsor
    Member of administrative and technical staff
    Same as sponsor
    Service staff
    No, for official acts. Otherwise, yes[39]
    Career Consular Officers
    Yes, if for a felony and pursuant to a warrant.[39]
    No, for official acts. Testimony may not be compelled in any case.
    No, for official acts. Otherwise, yes[41]
    Honorary consular officers
    No, for official acts. Yes, in all other cases
    No, for official acts. Otherwise, yes
    Consular employees
    No, for official acts. Yes, in all other cases
    No, for official acts. Otherwise, yes[39]
    International organization
    Diplomatic-level staff of missions to international organizations
    Same as sponsor
    International Organization Staff[41]
    No, for official acts. Yes, in all other cases
    No, for official acts. Otherwise, yes[41]
    Support staff of missions to international organizations
    No, for official acts. Yes, in all other cases
    No, for official acts. Otherwise, yes

  • Sqn Ldr S. Ausaf Husain (Retd)  On February 10, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Afia Siddiqui is serving some 80 to 90 years in an American Jail for allegedly threatening to kill and pointing a gun at an American Citizen but yet we couldn’t do any thing to get her back. Raymond Davis who is said to be a alleged spy operating in Lahore and according to news aired by a private TV Channel from whose a spy camera, photo snaps of sensitive places,special Cell phones and other spy equipment were found killed two Pakistanis and will be soon flown away to the US as a free man after the initial cacophony dies down. Similarly, four Americans of the backup vehicle of Raymond Davis who are responsible for crushing to death another Pakistan on the same day are provided illegal cover by US Consulate Lahore despite asking by Pakistan government to handover them to police for investigation.

    Can any body tell the difference between a Sovereign State and the one that is and has always been treated as an American stooge.

  • Zubair  On February 10, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Thank you YAA for clearing the fog. I am sure3 someone in our Govt must have gone through the Vienna Convention and are quite aware of its contents. The question is ow is our Govt going to respond to the American demands. The US is a lone superb power and as such its arrogance is understandable specially in our case. Call them arrogant or whatever you like. The fact is that they call the shots as far as our policies are concerned. They are not in a position to threaten Pakistan but only our rulers and their jobs.

  • Dave Lindorff  On February 12, 2011 at 3:19 am

    “You are correct. The 1963 convention specifically says, as I wrote, that in cased of “grave crimes,” there is no automatic immunity. I will try to run your story, if it’s okay with you”.

  • pakpotpourri2  On February 14, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    The article has been carried by Dave Lindorff on his blog:

  • Yvonne Ridley  On February 14, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    excellent article – i think the reason why the US is muted about Vienna Conventions is that it completely trampled the VC in its treatment of Dr Aafia Siddiqui and with the case of the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan.

    Yvonne Ridley

  • Bob Krausse  On February 14, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Interesting article. I put out a tweet about it.

  • Bajwa  On February 14, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    I am watching with great interest how Pakistanis react to arrest of Rahat Fateh Ali Khan who has been hauled under India’s Customs Act.


  • Inam Khan  On February 14, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    What is good for Pakistan; let him go or prosecute him and get mauled up by a super power who is also providing a great deal of assistance so badly required?………………Inam Khan

  • Saifur Rehman Quraishi  On February 14, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Those who are trying to turn Pakistan into killings fields are saying that “Raymond Davis” have diplomatic immunity according to Veinna Convention.I dont believe that diplomats are immune from prosecution of murder,robbery,rape etc.it is against natural justice to give monarchial immunity to whoever commit these heinous crimes.
    Member Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaaf

  • Ijaz ul Haq  On February 14, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Good article. hope they (US) understands that law is the same for everybody and cannot be distinguished between Nationalities. Dr Aafia Siddiqui a Pakistani National is being tried in the US without any proof of her involvement or being involved in any shoot out or killing any body. She gets 86 years imprisonment while they want to by pass the law and get immunity for the person who killed two innocent people in cold blood. while the third persons killer and car are both missing and have not been handed over to the authorities.

  • pakpotpourri2  On February 15, 2011 at 1:13 am

    This article is racing across USA sites.Here’s another posting:http://theglobalrealm.com/2011/02/14/us-misinformation-international-law-is-clear-that-diplomatic-immunity-is-not-absolute/

  • Zain I. Syed  On February 15, 2011 at 2:18 am

    Let me try to explain based on what little I know about this incident. It goes like this. An employee (we don’t know his name) of a US defense contractor (we don’t know if it was KBB or XE or…) chased and shot two local intell…igence operatives. The fact that they were both shot in the back (4 to 5 bullets were sustained by each) by a DoD Standard issue Glock 21 makes it very intriguing. They were both shot to be killed not to be scared or threatened. It was a professional hit as all bullets were sustained by the upper torso. More on the lines of the standard Head-Heart-Head doctrine used by professional assassins. We do not know why these two operatives were considered to be an extreme threat that warranted their elimination at any cost. This person is certainly not a diplomat by any stretch of imagination. He could have been easily lynched by the mob soon after the shooting. The risk was clearly life threatening but he still went ahead with his mission!

  • Syeddain Zariff  On February 15, 2011 at 2:23 am

    The Law applicable today and was yesteryears as well is ” Jis ki laathee ( Stick or Danda us ki Bhains (Cow ). laws and conventions are for weak, those already sold can not talk about them. No harm in trying.

  • Shaheen Atiq  On February 15, 2011 at 2:54 am

    Good article Yasmeen, you have a very clear mind. Wish Fauzia W dd not mean whatshe said…and left Davis go scot free. But with our leadres & their ill gained goodies in the West…can we expect anything else ?

  • Sadiq Amen  On February 15, 2011 at 4:50 am

    “15.2.11. AOA) (Qul Hatu Borhanakum) (Allah Swt) tells us in Qura’an produce ur deviance! or case dismissed! if one does not know the facts then one must wait or look for them for sure giving the story of American media! People Don’t Get Fooled By there Or Any Media Any More even American don’t believe there own media with there side of the story? he is for sure an member of (black water) the mercenary hired killers to create the green zone for American peace makers and the terrorist killers so called! they had to run out of Iraq because of there on going killing till two of there own killers were killed by the Iraqi and burnt hanged on the bridge they tried to tell the world they wee civilian contractor! do have any proof those wee killed was from any organization of Pakistan? do u even know one of the mans wife committed suicide? no one is allowed to kill in any country even diplomats,America have threaten Pakistan of suspending the millions of dollars of aid if Pakistan dose not free him why? he was caught with photograph of important sites in Pakistan.”

  • Peter Attwood  On February 15, 2011 at 10:40 am

    I found your analysis very helpful for the post I’m writing on my own blog. One minor problem: Article 38, which you cite, does not apply, since it treats of only nationals or permanent residents of the host country (Pakistan), and Davis is neither. But between his not even being a consular officer, as first stated by the consulate, or if he is as they later claimed, then falling under Article 37 (1961) and Article 41 (1963), he has no case at all. The Pakistani courts clearly have jurisdiction, and he needs to be tried for the murder.

    So the Americans are demanding the privilege of extra-territoriality for their one of their junior sahibs. If they get it, it should cost them a lot more than it’s worth, and God willing it will.

  • Imamat  On February 15, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Very good analysis,yasmeen,and from a different view.
    Unlike those wholesale Vienna conv experts found on channels.
    But will America follow the VC ?

    Bullies will not be bullies if they followed the law.


  • pakpotpourri2  On February 15, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    We just were published in COUNTER PUNCH:

  • Brig Latif  On February 16, 2011 at 4:02 am

    What he felt or what he thought he was faced with and the action he took as a consequence, is something to be looked into and decided by courts of law. Here the first and foremost question is whether he enjoys the diplomatic immunity or not. Because if he does, his case will be dealt with in a court in the USA and if he doesn’t, then his case will be taken up by a court in Pakistan. I think the issue of immunity has been made absolutely clear by Yasmeen Ali in her very comprehensive and well researched article.

    According to the Vienna Conventions of Diplomatic Relations of 1961 and Consular Relations of 1963, as clearly brought out by Yasmeen, he does not enjoy absolute immunity in this particular incident which happened totally outside the course of his duty. Rest is all politics and defensive tactics being adopted by him and his defenders, which will be of relevance at the time of trial only.

  • Dr M H Mirza  On February 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Brillant stuff but hope it does not fall on deaf ears!!!
    As we know it ‘Politics, Policies and Practices’ need to work in harmoney, but more ‘articulate and affluent’ get away with a ‘murder’

    Dr M H Mirza

  • G H Haider  On February 17, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Thank you for this very informative article. To my mind there is no doubt that Mr. Davis does not enjoy absolute immunity for this heinous crime. So far the Pakistani govt. has done what it should have, that is, handing the matter over to the court. The courts should be trusted by all. If Americans are sure that, if allowed to take him to USA, they will carry out an impartial trial in their country’s court, then they should better let him be tried in a Pakistani court. It will certainly be in the interest of USA as far as public opinion in Pakistan is concerned.

  • Abdul-Mughis Rana  On February 17, 2011 at 2:08 am

    I beleive that Court’s decision will sugar coat this bitter pill for all. The case is very clear. For America its easy, as American interest for them is everything, right or wrong is no concern. Whereas Pakistan has so many ifs and buts to consider then the decision has to be religiously right too.

  • Yasub Dogar  On February 17, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Dear YAA,
    It was a wonderful & thought provoking article as to how super powers intimidate countries with poor leadership & bend the international laws to their advantage. If such an incident had happened in US the aftermath would have been completely different.Having known the working of DEA & CIA I fully endorse your views.
    Deep regards
    Yasub Dogar

  • Aamir  On February 20, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    Interesting observations by Yasmeen Ali and I don’t doubt that she knows what she is saying.

    I cannot understand how one can explain cases like this:


    I presume that the assaulting 11 year old girls was part of his official duties? 🙂


  • Syed Khyrat Hussain  On February 21, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    It is an informative article. Good effort may be read on following link.



  • pakpotpourri2  On March 15, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Some more links where published:

  • pakpotpourri2  On March 16, 2011 at 1:19 am

    Thank you YOUR FRIEND & PARTNER. I am a lawyer, simply enunciated the law. I am very grateful for you adding the link for your subscribers. Please keep on visiting & reading.
    Warm Regards
    Yasmeen Ali


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: